Elder statesman and a former Commissioner for Information in Ondo State, Chief Segun Adegoke, has advised the All Progressives Congress, APC, national leader, Senator Bola Tinubu, to shelve his reported presidential ambition as he believes that the party and the North would never field him as presidential candidate.
Here is a taste of the Afenifere chieftain’s words: “If he (Tinubu) is going to win; if they are going to make him a candidate; they will never make him a candidate. The APC would never make him a candidate.
The earlier he sees that, the better. But the worst part of life is that our politicians in Nigeria are too optimistic, incurably optimistic. They believe they can squeeze water from a stone.
From what is going on, from what we are seeing, from what Tinubu himself has experienced, from the way they have behaved to him, he should know that the Northern people would never present him for APC as a presidential candidate. So there is no point looking beyond that.
If they presented him and he won, the Yoruba people would have no choice than to support him. After all, we supported Chief MKO Abiola in spite of all he did to Chief Awolowo. So we still believe he is a Yoruba man.
But I know he cannot be a candidate for presidency because the Northerners would never, the core APC people would not present him as presidential candidate.”
Adegoke is confident that the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, would defeat the incumbent APC government in Ondo State which is led by Governor Oluwarotimi Akeredolu, SAN, in the forthcoming 2020 election because of what he perceived as non performance.
The Afenifere chieftain, a former two time commissioner for Information in both the administrations of the late Chief Adekunle Ajasin and Chief Adebayo Adefarati, in Ondo state, and a lawyer, stressed the need to restructure Nigeria in view of the prevailing lopsidedness, injustice and imbalance characterising the nation’s political set up which he said are impeding the nation’s progress.
Adegoke, who turned 78 recently, spoke on other national issues, Afenifere, and politics in Ondo State among other issues in the following interview with Banji Ayoola. Excerpt:
Chief, we say: Congratulations on your 78th birthday. How do you feel being 78?
I feel 78 quite alright but there were many things I was doing before that I cannot do now. For example, I used to eat a lot, but now I eat sometimes a day; at best twice a day, and small portion. I sleep early. There is no way you can beat nature.
When you are getting old, you would have to slow down. There is no way in which you would not slow down. So I have slowed down considerably. That is what everybody prays for; to get old before someone dies. Awon Yoruba ni emi gigun l’ere aye. (The Yoruba say that long life is the gift of the world.) So I still pray to God to grant me long life more years to come.
How was your growing up like?
I was a very lucky person. The reason why I said I was lucky was that I lost my father at a very early age; and my mother was a young woman when I lost my father. He died at the age of 35, and my mother was about 26 or 27 then. And I was 12 when my father died.
So the future looked bleak. I myself felt the future looked bleak. I couldn’t see the sign of my attending a secondary school. I couldn’t see a sign of my attaining any height in future. My thought then was to go and learn a trade either to become a driver or a carpenter or a mechanic. That was what I was thinking.
But fortunately, my maternal grandfather, that is the father of my mother, believed that I was a very sharp little boy. And in spite of his old age, he decided to finance me in the secondary school. So he gave me the opportunity and financed me in the secondary school. He was a bit buoyant because he was a building contractor. So he sent me to secondary school. And after the secondary school, I was on my own, completely on my own.
I started working and after few years, and I had saved enough money, I traveled abroad to pursue what they called the greener pasture, to see what the outside world looked like. That is how it started.
I read International Relations, International Affairs and later I proceeded to read Law. I got qualified and I decided to come back to Nigeria to practice Law. I started practicing Law. Along the line, I showed interest in politics, and I was so lucky that within few years of my being in politics, I was made a commissioner when being a commissioner then was a great feat. And the rest is history.
As a commissioner in the administration of Chief Adekunle Ajasin, you worked intimately with him. Could you give us a peep into the virtues of this man?
Papa was a very kind man, kind, strict, honest, straightforward and sincere. Baba was quiet by nature and soft spoken. He detested anything that is dishonourable, anything; and he hated partiality, favouritism. He was a man who believed in merit.
I could remember an occasion when a close cousin of his was made the chairman of one of the parastatals, and when they were reading the list of those who were made members of the parastatals; then he asked the man reading the thing to stop. He said ‘who is the man you mentioned last?’ and they mentioned his name. He said ‘Ha. He can’t be there.’
They knew his connection with him. Everybody was surprised. He said he was not educated enough to head that kind of place. So everybody was surprised. He said they should look for somebody who was well educated, that that man deserved to be given something, that he could be given contracts, but not to make him the chairman of a big parastatal like that. That is how far you can imagine how honest he could be. He believed that a round peg must be in the round hole. Papa is noted for that.
The acquisitive tendency of Baba is nil. He didn’t believe in amassing wealth. He didn’t even believe in amassing any material thing. His house in Owo would testify to that. That is all he had, and to the extent that in 1983 December when Buhari staged the coup, Baba was ferried out of the government House by a cousin of his with a Peugeot 404. He hadn’t got a car of his own. He didn’t believe in it.
So he was an exceptional man. He was a man. It’s rare to find that kind of man. Honestly. He was so frugal in everything.
Weighing these virtues of Chief Ajasin and those of the politicians you have associated with, vis a vis the Nigerian politicians of today, is there any correlation?
There is a wide gap, honestly. The olden days’ politicians were dedicated to serving. They were not out for what they could get. They were not there to build empires. They were not there to amass billions of Naira like it is today; and that is why when you look at politicians of the Second Republic, you can hardly point to one rich person out of them, even now.
Those who were prominent in the Second Republic are not rich if they are alive. Those of them that are alive cannot lay claim to being wealthy or rich because they were not stealing money. They believe in service.
For example, look at people like Chief Reuben Fasoranti. These are the people who served in the Second Republic; even the late Chief Adebayo Adefarati. He served in the Second Republic; the likes of Prof Sam Aluko, in spite of the fact that he was a professor. They lived modestly and moderately because they wanted to serve the people; they wanted to make life comfortable for the people.
Like our leader the late sage, Chief Obafemi Awolowo used to say. He wanted an egalitarian society. He wanted to give everybody the opportunity to be educated; opportunity to good health, good housing; and that is the type Alhaji Lateef Jakande demonstrated in Lagos.
Those were the things that were in the minds of the Second Republic politicians. There was no room for amassing wealth, stealing. There was nothing like that; unlike today when for example look at what our senators earn, what our House of Reps members earn, look at what chairmen of boards and parastatals earn today.
Look at the billions of Naira. Look at the people who are in top places. Look at what is happening to our Inland Revenue, I mean the Nigerian Inland Revenue; where a man can own 29 houses; because the philosophy of life to these politicians of the Second Republic is that they believed that the world is vanity; all is vanity; it’s vanity upon vanity that you acquire billions of Naira.
Sometimes I wonder why these people are not thinking. What do you want to do with such wealth? You waste it and millions of Nigerians are suffering. They say that Nigeria is the capital of poverty.
So there is a wide gap, too wide between the old politicians and these modern politicians.
Do you have any recommendations on the way out, on how to rebuild this country?
The country should start. If you want to rebuild this country, they should let the welfare of the common people take the first burner. All these stealing, looting is the fear of the unknown. You see a man who is made a Governor wants to acquire wealth. Probably by the time he becomes Governor he is having four children, and probably some are still in the secondary school, some are still in the primary school, some are still in the university.
So his calculation would be that he wants to store enough money to send them to the university, to consider how they would get married, how he is going to finance their marriage, and so on and so forth. And he would be thinking of himself to build a house, own a car and all that kind of things. And then knowing full well that the tenure is limited, let’s say four years tenure; he wants to leave the place and continue to be a rich man or a high society man.
But if there is what is known as welfarism, if the country decides to take care of the common people, if Education is free, if Health is free, if food is cheap, if other things that are needs are easily available, even if you are paid N10,000 a month, you would be okay, you would be alright. But when you think about sending your children to school, medical care, clothing, housing and all kinds of things, you would discover that you have nothing left if you are earning any salary.
So if you are lucky, fortunate to be in a government position, a political office, all these would be taken into consideration. They would take all these into consideration when they are stealing. You have to be your own doctor, you have to supply yourself your own water, you have to supply yourself your own electricity and so on and so forth. All these consume money.
So these people who are in political offices nowadays would put that into consideration; and want to steal much as they can so that even if they live 100 years, they would be living in affluence for the rest of their lives.
But if the government takes care of a lot of these people, consider a man who has four children and the four children are attending schools freely, they get free medical treatment, and Agriculture is so good that they buy cheap food in the market, what is left. Even if the father or parents are paid paltry sum of money, it would be enough to take care of the family.
So the first thing the government must do is to initiate a system whereby all the common people would be taken care of.
Look at London for example, Great Britain. If you don’t work, they would pay you. If you have worked before and what is even more, employment is common there, you have enough people working in Great Britain. You can go out and look for job, within the next three hours, you would get a job. And if for some time, you fail to get a job or you are not working, they would pay for all your needs. They would make sure you pay your rent, you eat well. They would do this for one year. If after a year you can’t get a job, they would look into why, and they themselves would find you a job.
Unless such things are done here, and we can do it, we have enough income in Nigeria to do all these things, if we restructure our situation, if we make legislative work part time. For example, look at how many senators we have. It’s three senators times 36 states. Look at what they earn. Look at the House of Reps. They are so many and what they earn in terms of allowances, salaries, and other emoluments. If we can reduce these, for example I don’t see why we cannot have part time legislative assembly. Why should we waste so much time and money? Look at the perquisites of office. Look at what goes with it. It’s sick. It’s obscene.
Afenifere, of which you are a chieftain, which was the arrowhead of the NADECO struggle for the present political dispensation, was canvassing some ideas including what it called the Yoruba Agenda, which formed the basis of the group’s contributions at the 2014 National Conference. The report of that conference is now gathering dust; and majority of Nigerians believe that this is the best instrument to rebuild this country. What is your view on this?
What the Afenifere is saying is that we should restructure the country as a whole. Like a Yoruba proverb that says: Oosa b’oo le gbe mi, fi mi sile boo se ba mi. (Deity, please leave me as you met me if you cannot benefit me.) We embraced the presidential system. It hasn’t paid up till now. And I don’t think it would ever pay.
Now we look back into the First Republic when there were different regions – Western Region, Eastern Region, Northern Region and the Middle Belt. We discover that people fared better, and the reason cannot be farfetched.
Look at the Western Region for example. It was able then to provide free education, free health care delivery. Take those two for example. And there was this integrated rural development in terms of Agriculture. Look at the Cocoa House in Ibadan. It was built during that period. First Television station in Africa, the WNTV was first in Africa during the era of Chief Obafemi Awolowo; University of Ife and so on and so forth; modern Stadium that is still modern till today. We were able to do such things then.
The Western Region had its own Constitution. It was then there was a federal system. Today they are calling a unitary system a federal system. What we are running in Nigeria today is a unitary government.
So if we have seen all those good things then by that structure, why can’t we go back to that, so that people would live happily after, so that citizens would benefit unlike what is going on now when people are suffering. People are not enjoying the dividends of democracy, and today democracy promotes a particular tribe over the other. There is a monopoly of one tribe over the other. That is not good for democracy.
For instance if you look at our security today, from head to bottom, the high top positions, are being occupied by a particular tribe, which is not good.
Look at what is happening in Nigeria; you are talking about quota system. That would have been unnecessary if every region is on its own. They would develop according to their strength. They would look for money either by taxation, by business or by any other legitimate thing to develop their states. Everybody would develop according to his own power.
But look at what is happening now. They dole out money from the federal level to the states. Honestly it is sickening. I think we should restructure this country if we want to hand over to a better generation.
Is the division within Afenifere not affecting development in the South West and the group’s contributions to national development?
Division how?
Now you have the faction led by Chief Ayo Fasanmi apart from the mainstream Afenifere which is led by Chief Reuben Fasoranti. Again they now say that Prof Banji Akintoye is the Yoruba leader.
There is no division at all. Pa Fasanmi is a highly revered person. He is a man that I really admire and respect. He is a very solid old man, principled. But he has never been an Afenifere man to the best of my knowledge. He disagreed with certain norms and principles of Afenifere. I have never seen him attend any Afenifere meeting. I am cocksure that he is not an Afenifere man. But he belongs to the Awolowo Clan, that is people like him, like Chief Fasoranti, like myself, like Prof Banji Akintoye. We were together as Awolowo disciples.
But as far as Afenifere is concerned, especially after the demise of Chief Awolowo, Papa Fasanmi is not one. So we must differentiate this collective Awolowo people from Afenifere. Not all Awolowo believers are in Afenifere. I am solidly sure. For example, Chief Bisi Akande, former Governor of Osun State is no longer an Afenifere person. He is not. But he is one of the strong members of the Awolowo political family. Politicians like creating factions. I think they did that just to create faction when the people went to see Buhari just to deceive him.
The core disciples of Chief Awolowo are today out of power in the West and even so to say in other states of the country. You do not have any political party formed basically on the principle of Awolowo…
At the moment I don’t think there is any. That is the struggle we are now in that if you cannot form a political party with Awolowo ideology, at least we can still say solid to people who embrace the same principles of Awo.
If for example it is not possible now for us, since politics today is not sectional anymore, there is no Yoruba politics, there is no Igbo politics, and there is no northern politics. All the parties now have members across the board. But we are trying to enunciate a particular set of principles that any government that keys into it, any party that keys into it would be our political party. Any party that embraces Awolowo’s principles, I can assure you, all those who believe in Awolowo would be in that party.
But as it is today in Nigeria, what is the ideology of any political party. There is none. As far as I am concerned, except in organization, except in ways of doing things, you can hardly attach an ideology to a particular political party in Nigeria today; unlike when UPN existed, and NPN existed. It was crystal clear that UPN was a progressive party, and NPN was conservative.
At that time the feudal system in the North which was predominantly was on; and the northern people were predominantly the chieftains of NPN. So if you put the UPN and NPN, you would differentiate that UPN, this is a socialist party, this is a progressive party.
I laugh when the APC say they are progressive. I don’t know whether they know the meaning of progressivism. If you look at them and their outlook, you discover that APC is far from being a progressive party. As a matter of fact, PDP is closer to being a progressive party than APC.
In that sense, now the conservative reactionary ideological group of people is in power. They have edged out the real progressives. What are you doing to reclaim power?
It’s a very difficult question because you can only get to power through political parties; and as we are today the most reactionary party I have ever seen is APC and they are in government today. We can see. A blind man can see what they are doing today.
Take the issue of corruption. They say they are fighting corruption. Look at the way they are fighting corruption. Apart from being selective, all the people they labeled as corrupt are now brought to their side. They were talking of Godswill Akpabio. They were talking about N100 billion siphoned by him while he was governor of Rivers state. They were about to go to court. He is now in APC. Maina whom they just arrested, when the thing came out they were defending him. Jonathan sacked Maina. They reemployed him, brought him back and promoted him until Nigerians started crying.
And their national chairman said if you come to us, your sin would be forgiven openly. And it is happening. Look at the former secretary to the Federal Government, N200 million used for cutting grass. It was when Nigerians shouted that he was relieved of his office. Look at the NIA man. They are too many. So who is a fool; who are they deceiving? They used the fight against corruption as a political weapon to hunt, to persecute their opponents. That’s not the proper way of fighting corruption.
But Senator Bola Tinubu was once with you in the Afenifere. Now he is in power; and he is a progressive. They say that he is leading the Yoruba to the mainstream national politics?
No. those making those statements need their heads to be reexamined. Tinubu is being driven by ambition and self. That’s the point. You know the drive for power can turn a human being to an animal, can turn a human being to a cannibal. Looking for power is very dangerous; when you are possessed by the desire to get to power especially when you have the ambition to become a president of a country, or a governor of a state.
I think part of Tinubu’s problems is that he wants to be president of Nigeria. At first he wanted to be vice president, but because somebody kicked against Muslim-Muslim ticket, that didn’t work out. Now he wants to be president. And he is doing everything possible to be so.
So I don’t know what mainstream politics he is leading the Yoruba people to. I don’t know because those who are in the mainstream politics who are his masters in the mainstream politics did not do anything for their own people, in spite of the fact that the northerners held power and they are still holding power for many years.
Look at the situation among the generality of the people in the North, the almajiris. There is no benefit the long stay in power of the northern leaders has brought to the Northern Region. They are still as poor as ever. The almajiris are still there. Yet they occupy all the top positions in Nigeria. What is the improvement in the North. What have they in the North.
They have the worst educated people in Nigeria. The number of educated people in the North cannot be compared with any part of Nigeria. The unemployment of the young ones, of the youths is the worst ever than any other part of Nigeria. So what benefits have they brought to their people, and they are in the mainstream.
Mainstream, the Yoruba were not in the mainstream. What have we not got? We struggled hard on our own to get everything we need until recently when things are declining. So I don’t believe in this kind of mainstream thing. Politics, good governance should be the order of the day.
If Tinubu wants to be president, then good luck to him; but he should not say that he wants to bring the Yoruba into mainstream national politics. Who says? I won’t deny the fact that he is a very important person; and I won’t deny that he has achieved a lot in his life politically. But that does not mean I must agree with his principle of what is driving him. To my mind what drives him is different from what is driving any normal altruistic Nigerian.
If his reported presidential ambition is true, if he comes for the support of Afenifere, would Afenifere bless him?
If he is going to win; if they are going to make him a candidate; they will never make him a candidate. The APC would never make him a candidate. The earlier he sees that, the better. But the worst part of life is that our politicians in Nigeria are too optimistic, incurably optimistic. They believe they can squeeze water from a stone. From what is going on, from what we are seeing, from what Tinubu himself has experienced, from the way they have behaved to him, he should know that the Northern people would never present him for APC as a presidential candidate. So there is no point looking beyond that.
If they presented him and he won, the Yoruba people would have no choice than to support him. After all, we supported Chief MKO Abiola in spite of all he did to Chief Awolowo. So we still believe he is a Yoruba man. But I know he cannot be a candidate for presidency because the Northerners would never, the core APC people would not present him as presidential candidate.
What has been the relationship between Senator Tinubu and Afenifere since he left the group?
He left long time ago. He left even before he formed AC. He wants to be number one anywhere he is; and when great men like Pa Ayo Adebanjo, if they are still there, people like the leaders of Afenifere are still there, people like Pa Fasoranti, people who even by age and experience should be listened to and should give advice. Tinubu didn’t want that. He would be saying he didn’t want anybody to tell him Baba so pe. (Baba said.) He didn’t want that. He wants to be the Baba himself.
There are different kinds of people in this world. Some feel that they must be number one wherever they are. If they can’t be, they won’t be there. He is one like that, he is a person of that nature.
Is Afenifere grooming anybody for presidency?
Afenifere is not a political party. They can’t groom anybody for presidency. They would support a good candidate with good manifesto, with good track record, with good reputation and with strong ability to govern, education wise and so on. I as an Afenifere, supported Atiku earlier on, and those who are in Afenifere who are not in any political party supported him for many reasons; and majority of Nigerians supported him. The result may bring something different out. That’s a long story. So if we find another person like that who is capable, we would support him for the progress of the country; if he is capable and keys in to the programmes that would benefit the country.
Now let’s go to your party, the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP. What are you doing to reclaim power at the national level and at the Ondo State level?
We have not lost power yet.
At the national level?
Yes, we have not lost yet. We are in Supreme Court. It is the Supreme Court which would tell us what to do next. But at the Ondo State level I am sure we would get back Ondo State come 2020. I am very positive about that.
What gives you that confidence?
We are stronger in Ondo State. We demonstrated it in the last election. We are stronger than any other party if we don’t mess up ourselves; if we don’t allow minor little things to divide us; if we are united and we move into the election like that, I am sure that it would be landslide.
But you have 17 governorship aspirants?
It doesn’t matter. The 17 would not contest. Only one would contest and when we pick a candidate, we would all unite, we would all key behind that one and we would be united with him. If we are able to do that, that’s the end of the matter. You should forget about APC in Ondo State.
The APC says that its administration is rebuilding Ondo State, building roads, doing a lot of projects; what are those things that the party is doing now which your party would do better?
I don’t know what APC is doing now; probably the road in Owo, probably that’s what they are referring to; and probably the narrow bridge, cross over bridge in Ore. I don’t know what APC is doing in Ondo State. I see many things that are left undone.
Like?
Our educational system is dying. It’s still as bad as ever. Our tertiary institutions in Ondo State are collapsing. The health system is in shambles. Agriculture in Ondo State is zero. So what is left? There is no improvement in education in Ondo State. There is no improvement in health system in Ondo State. There is no improvement in Agriculture in Ondo State. So what do you have left? The exorbitant school fees levied on tertiary institutions students.
It’s not only tarring of roads that make a good government. The people must feel that a good person is in government; that a good government is in power; not tarring roads, not building bridge across the sky; not that. What do the people in Ondo State need economically; how do they feel; what is the income of an average Ondo State person; what do they do for a living; how much do they spend on a child in the hospital; how much do they spend on a child in the primary school, in a secondary school, in the university; what are the prices of food in the market? That is what matters.
Infrastructure do not end in roads in a place where you tar roads, thousands of roads and children are dying in hospitals because there is no medicine in the hospital, there are no drugs in the hospital, there is no proper treatment in the hospital; in a situation where a classroom is like … I don’t know. It is sad to say that somebody is tarring roads and the people are not living well in the state. They cannot send their children to school.
But APC is saying that Governor Akeredolu has performed wonderfully and he should be reelected…
What do you expect them to say? What do you expect a party to say about a candidate they are featuring for an office? That’s politics. That’s campaign. As far as APC is concerned, Akeredolu is the best Governor that has ever occupied that seat in Ondo State. That’s what is expected of them to say. You want them to say bring a PDP candidate. No. you see, the problem is that Akeredolu was not prepared for the job. That’s the problem.
If the people of Ondo State elect your party into power, what would you do for them?
I would give my usual advice. I can lay claim to the saying that I’ve seen it all. I have a lot of experience. I have been in government before. I have virtually known intimately all the Governors that traversed the landscape of Ondo State Government. So I would be able to speak the truth to power; I would be able to tell them what I think is right, what I think is wrong, what they should do right, what they should not do. There is no substitute for experience. So I would be very ready to give advice.
What programmes would your party implement for the people of the state?
It’s clear. I’ve told you. I said the four cardinal programmes that any party needs to build its people up have been destroyed in Ondo State. That is Education, Health, Rural Integrated Development, and Employment. These are the four cardinal programmes that are necessary to pursue good governance. None is beeing pursued in Ondo State. None.
So the new Government would establish that. We would build up the educational system in Ondo State to a very high standard to be at par with any good institution, any good country or any good state in Africa, even in the world. There is no single university in Nigeria that is among the one to 1,000 good universities in the world. So we would do a lot in the fields of Education, Health, Agriculture which nobody is doing now.
Look at what the former Governor Olusegun Mimiko did. It is in shambles now. The Trauma Centre which was the cynosure of all eyes, which was being patronised from all over Nigeria, is down now. It’s in shambles. If you go there you would regret.
Look at Akungba. Look at the university in Okitipupa. Look at Rufus Giwa Polytechnic. There is nothing good to write home about. That is the position. Go and look at our hospitals. All these institutions have collapsed. People have resorted to Herbal Medicine. You can hardly find a well equipped hospital in Ondo State. Everybody is living on concussion. There are lots of things to revamp if PDP gets to power.
What’s your birthday wish for the people of Ondo State and Nigeria as a whole?
My birthday wish is that Nigerians should be patient. They should not only be patient; they should be working hard. I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. They should like a Latin phrase which says…, that is perseverance overcomes everything. I am one of them. We are really suffering in Nigeria today. We are suffering.
So my wish is that it would not continue to be like this. God will come to our rescue. We will triumph. We will overcome. So Nigerians should not do anything that would damage their health, or damage their reputation. They should be law abiding. They should work hard. A better government would soon come to power very soon. They should be patient.
Any further comment?
None, thank you.
